Curse

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 31, 2006, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I'm afraid this weekend has really done nothing but make me wonder what kind of monkeys they have in alpha...

I agree Mysticism as a whole really seems unbalanced.

art_ · Jul 31, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

goodbye game

Stealth Rider · Jul 31, 2006, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Scary part about it is you cant even split effectively against it. We went against Spearmen today, and when we split, it took only two Dervishes to kill two Wars, an air/wards ele (with Draw) and a boonprot. Just two, and the AoE wasnt even the cause.

IMO Anet went in the right direction giving the new classes Primary Attributes devoted to energy management, but this is slightly...riddiculous.

sixdartbart · Jul 31, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coocks

I hope from all my heart that we'll meet The Spearmen or any other guilds which got to top 50 by using D/Mo builds, to see how good they are at tactics and at playing a balanced build.

This is a very nice thought and while I did see a few top quality guilds using this just to stay afloat this weekend I really doubt that most of the guilds that did this merely to climb the ladder will be GvGing anytime in the near future but rather sitting on the rating points that they received by running the flaw of the month build. *crosses fingers hoping to be wrong*

If they do pop up it will make for a nice way to get large point wins

I suspect they will crawl back into HA now but I intend to send my HA players after them there as well

Thom · Jul 31, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Edited by Dralspire: This information is subject to a non-disclosure agreement.

Sorry, was trying to give some flavor to about the alpha testing as I experienced it and didn't mean to violate the NDA. It is enough to say that testers don't always find testing to be perfect and most everyone who has tested will agree.

My other point was that, open beta events really require some sort of reward to expose all bugs. People can and do horde ideas until they think they can profit. Providing normal in-game awards will bring more bugs to light.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 31, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Thinking about the question more I say:

I wish I had the title, but it would hurt admitting that I used a severly out of balance build to get it.

Patrograd · Jul 31, 2006, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

I agree Mysticism as a whole really seems unbalanced.

IMHO the whole class concept of dervishes needs a severe rethink. Enchantment abuse has always been rife in the game wherever it has been possible to do so, and this class seems designed specifically to abuse enchantments.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 31, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Because Scythe attacks are so strong, the fact they hit 3 at a time with good damage, they had to have some way to balance it. So they made the attacks rip enchants and made that possible by mysticism. Anyways it just ended up broken and created too many ways to abuse mysticism.

Greedy Gus · Jul 31, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Who cares about champion points? It's a fun thing to strive for, but let's be realistic. What really matters when you're trying to recruit someone is past guild history, which can be looked up with precision.

Tombs fame on the other hand is a necessary evil because pick-up-groups are how that PvP avenue works. So if something is distorting fame to the point where it's not taken seriously, that is a more heavily weighted issue.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 31, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Tombs fame on the other hand is a necessary evil because pick-up-groups are how that PvP avenue works. So if something is distorting fame to the point where it's not taken seriously, that is a more heavily weighted issue.

I have a buddy who got R3 this weekend starting at 20 fame from running D/mo's all weekend. This is the new IWAY as far as HA is concerned.

CoRrRan · Jul 31, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I'm afraid this weekend has really done nothing but make me wonder what kind of monkeys they have in alpha...

I can't agree more with this remark, JR. How can it NOT be possible for Alpha's to notice that 3 PBAoE Enchantments with damaging/crippling ending conditions together with CoP would be abused. (Not to mention getting an unremovable 'Elite Form' for 64 seconds that is almost impossible to kite from.)

As for the Champion Title: due to the rating requirement being lowered from (perhaps an unrealistic) 1500 to 1200, this already took a dent in credibility IMO. And if new and unbalanced skills are added into an active GvG ladder season, that's just wrong. A ladder freeze during such Beta weekends or (even better) these Beta weekends during a ladder freeze are a much better idea.

Nadine · Aug 01, 2006, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Yeah, D/Mo's really need to get a big nerf. They were overpowered and hard to counter.

Ofcourse there are builds which basicly have more power than others but mostly they have more counters. I.E. New smiters, they are powerful weapons and zealots fire is easy to cover. But anet added gaze of contempt to game

. And someone may say that sb/ri spike has great power, but why did anet add expel hexes? But d/mo's gave good use for old favorite called Maelstorm

. But d/mo's weren't easyle countered with maelstorm nor choking gas. That is why they are overpowered.

Patrograd · Aug 01, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I have to say that I think this rush of D/Mos has been great, pushing poor teams up the ladder.

Rarely have points been so easy to take from high ranked teams as they were last night as these guys suddenl;y found themsleves without their crutch.

sixdartbart · Aug 01, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

I have to say that I think this rush of D/Mos has been great, pushing poor teams up the ladder.

Rarely have points been so easy to take from high ranked teams as they were last night as these guys suddenl;y found themsleves without their crutch.

*walking through the forest he hears a noise in the distance-cautiously looks arounds and spots a troll near the stream-with a full flask of water and no need to aproach the stream he leaves the troll in peace*

Patrograd · Aug 01, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

*walking through the forest he hears a noise in the distance-cautiously looks arounds and spots a troll near the stream-with a full flask of water and no need to aproach the stream he leaves the troll in peace*

The Spearmen

2006-07-29 00:00:21 Rank 507 (-51) PPG 0.952381 Rating 1020 (0) W 12 (0) L 9 (0)
2006-07-30 00:00:15 Rank 7 (+500) PPG 5.42857 Rating 1380 (+360) W 54 (+42) L 16 (+7)

Only once before in their history had this team passed 1200 rating

This is only the most extreme example of a team that is currently massively over-rated, there are plenty of others, and these guys represent nice potential ratings gains for the balanced teams out there

*Note - I mean no disrespect to the Spearmen with this. I'm sure they're a great bunch of lads and i understand they have a good reputation in HoH. but I dont think even they would consider themselves one of the best 10 teams in the world.

latbec · Aug 01, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

To sum it all, the people who like to run gimmicks like IWAY, necro spike, etc, will look forward to Nightfalls as it will give them a brand new tool to farm their fame in HA, since the faction new classes did not give them such option. Serious GvGers who make balanced build will look forward to Nightfalls as it will give them a new 300 skills to incorporate in their metagame. I guess Anet is trying to give a bit of cheese to the different categories of gamers who play their game (/sarcasm)

Wrynn · Aug 02, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I think the laughing at the spearmen in observer mode all day sums it up nicely. Give them credit for exploiting broken skills or not. They sacrificed what respect they did have that solid day of gvging. I saw quite a few names I recognized bascially saying the same. The few matches I watched that day, no one was cheering them on. Most were laughing at them when they got beat, and there was pretty much a collective cheer when EviL was DPing them out.

Its a pure case of "broken skills beats good tactics" Sure, we could go in and finesse kills and kill people 1 second before the base rez, but why do that when we can just nuke the sh-- out of them?

If you watched any matches (most notably the EvIL one). It was plain to see that they lacked tactics... in a big way. The majority of the time they spent running around like chickens with their heads cut off. If you watch EvIL play, they make deliberate moves with very intended results, and react to the unexpected (such as a rush on their lord) very quickly.

I just looked through the entire top 1k guilds. Only TWO guilds have more losses than them. And all but two guilds in the top ten show double digit losses (and as of when i checked, they were both less than 20 each)

I agree with the posters. Freeze the ladder during a test weekend so we dont see this kind of BS again. Or just test while the ladder is frozen anyway. Or, third option, "you cannot enter gvg with this class in your party." Tombs can remain a FFA. Simply because its only a nuisance to lose, not hurtful to a rank, especially during even a FUN season where there are prizes at stake, and should go to the most deserving, not the most exploiting.

Markov Ada · Aug 02, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

I agree that mysticism is overpowered, but despite that, this weekend has really showed that very few guilds actually have the ability to adapt to a changing metagame.

I find it strange how a whole 'competitive' community can frown upon people who play to win.... Even though I respect people who can play and win chess blindfolded against 3 opponents simultaneously, I don't frown upon those who actually play the game how it was designed to be played.

Greedy Gus · Aug 02, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markov Ada

I agree that mysticism is overpowered, but despite that, this weekend has really showed that very few guilds actually have the ability to adapt to a changing metagame.

I find it strange how a whole 'competitive' community can frown upon people who play to win. Even though I respect people who can play and win chess blindfolded against 3 opponents simultansouly, I don't frown upon those who actaully play the game how it was designed to be played.

Indeed, many teams did not gvg at all and spent way too much time complaining in observer mode.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 02, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Indeed, many teams did not gvg at all and spent way too much time complaining in observer mode.

I think a lot of teams (especially in the top 50) chose not to GvG that weekend simply because of the risk. With classes running around that were clearly not thought out, the risk of a rating tank is extremely high due to a build issue. Even if you were running the D/Mo build, who's to say some low-ranked guild wouldn't find a counter in the unbalanced skillsets and give you a -25 with it?

The other issue is simply 'fun.' We thought about taking D/Mos into GvG, but after playing it in Tombs for a real we decided that we simply weren't having any fun. There's no challenge or strategy or offensive coordination, you just run into groups and press 1-2-3. The reason I play GvG is because it's a challenging and interesting game - D/Mo vs. D/Mo is just boring, so we elected not to play on saturday instead of participating in that.

Agreed that too many guilds decided to troll Obs chat though. Personally, I think the Spearmen should be congratulated - they beat a lot of other guilds this weekend, and got their 15 minutes of fame. People who hate them need to stop QQing and accept that every team gets the same 64 skills. If you played during the weekend and the Spearmen beat you because of their overpowered build, it's really your own fault for not running a similarly overpowered build.